The following is an interview by G. Edward Griffin, an ultra-Conservative
and researcher of issues which have undermined the US. His credibility
has been questioned on a number of topics he has covered, and,
oddly enough, in retrospect over recent decades and revelations
by a number of very credible sources, Mr Griffin has been
spot-on in his analyses in virtually every topic he's covered.
In this interview in 1984, he asks Yuri Bezmenov, a former
subverting the US population and conversion to Communism.
At the time of this interview, the Soviet Union was
still strong and had not shown any indiction that it would
collapse six years later, following President Reagan's
encouragement of Soviet Premier Gorbachev to
shut down the USSR war machine, and
essentially defect to the West.
Little did he know then that The Establishment
would inflict a series of Presidents from
GHW Bush, to Clinton, to W, to Obama
on the US to complete the transformation
of the US to a Socialist/Communist society.
ED GRIFFIN:
Well, you spoke before about "ideological subversion" and that's a phrase that I'm afraid some Americans don't understand.
When the Soviets use the phrase "ideological subversion" what do they mean by it?
YURI BEZMENOV:
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| Yuri Bezmenov - KGB |
I know that intelligence gathering looks more romantic.... That's probably why your Hollywood producers are so crazy about James Bond types of films.
But in reality the main emphasis of the KGB is NOT in the area of intelligence at all. According to my opinion, and the opinions of many defectors of my caliber, only about 15% of time, money, and manpower is spent on espionage as such.
The other 85% is a slow process which we call either ideological subversion, active measures, or psychological warfare.
What it basically means is:
to change the perception of reality of every American that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.
It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages.
The first one being "demoralization". It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of [their] enemy.
In other words, Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least three generations of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism; American patriotism....
The result?
The result you can see ... the people who graduated in the 1960's, dropouts or half-baked intellectuals, are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, and educational systems. You are stuck with them. You can't get through to them. They are contaminated.
They are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern [e.g., Pavlov]. You cannot change their mind even if you expose them to authentic information. Even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you still can not change the basic perception and the logic of behavior.
In other words, for these people the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible. To rid society of these people you need another 15 or 20 years to educate a new generation of patriotically minded and common sense people who would be acting in favor and in the interests of United States society.
ED: And yet these people who have been programmed and as you say are in place and who are favorable to an opening with the Soviet concept - these are the very people who would be marked for extermination in this country?
YURI: Most of them, yes. Simply because the psychological shock when they will see in the future what the beautiful society of EQUALITY and social justice means in practice, obviously they will revolt.
They will be very unhappy and frustrated people, and the Marxist-Leninist regime does not tolerate these people. Obviously they will join the ranks of dissenters; dissidents. Unlike the present United States, there will be no place for dissent in future Marxist-Leninist America.
Now, you can get popular like Daniel Ellsburg and filthy rich like Jane Fonda for being a dissident and for criticizing your Pentagon. In the future these people will simply be squashed like cockroaches for criticizing the government. Nobody is going to pay them nothing for their beautiful and noble ideas of EQUALITY.
This they don't understand and it will be the greatest shock for them, of course.
The demoralization process in the United States is basically completed already for the last 25 years. Actually, it's over fulfilled because demoralization now reaches such areas where not even Comrade Andropov and all his experts would even dream of such tremendous success.
Most of it is done by Americans to Americans thanks to lack of moral standards. As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures. ...he will refuse to believe it.... That's the tragedy of the situation of demoralization.
The next stage is destabilization.... It only takes two to five years to destabilize a nation.
This time what matters is essentials; economy, foreign relations, [and] defense systems. And you can see it quite clearly that in some... sensitive areas such as defense and [the] economy, the influence of Marxist-Leninist ideas in the United States is absolutely fantastic.
I could never believe it 14 years ago when I landed in this part of the world that the process will go that fast.
Most of the American politicians, media, and educational system train another generation of people who think they are living at the peacetime. False! The United States is in a state of war; undeclared, total war against the basic principles and foundations of this system. And the initiator of this war is not Comrade Andropov of course - it's the system.
However, ridiculous it may sound, it is the world Communist system, or the world Communist conspiracy. Whether I scare some people or not, I don't give a hoot. If you're not scared by now, nothing can scare you.
ED: Okay, so what do we do? What is your recommendation to the American people?
YURI: Well, the immediate thing that comes to mind is, of course, there must be a very strong national effort to educate people in the spirit of REAL patriotism, number one.
Number two, to explain to them the real danger of a socialist, communist, welfare state, Big Brother government.... The moment at least part of the United States population is convinced that the danger is real, they have to FORCE their government... to stop aiding Communism.
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EDITORIAL NOTE:
We have added links to such terms as KGB and Soviet, Big Brother as well as the names of world leaders such as Reagan, Andropov, and Gorbachev simply because the majority of young people who read this attended our depleted education system and have no recollection or awareness of the historical significance of these key, historical figures.
This may surprise you, but ask the average 40-something [or younger] Liberal about any of these references, and you'll likely get a blank stare in response.
